Tore Down One of My Ford Tractors Today

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Tore Down One of My Ford Tractors Today

Post by lavron »

Finally decided to get to the bottom of my fuel delivery problem on my '57 600 Series Ford Tractor today, wasn't too bad too take apart, I was surprised no bolts were frozen up with rust, but I sprayed most of them with PB Blaster a couple of weeks ago.

I dumped the old gas out of the tank into a bucket and when I took the shutoff valve off the bottom there was a piece of varnish over the outlet. I guess I will go ahead and seal the tank even though I think just cleaning it good would probably solve my problem, no more ethanol gas is going in this tractor ever again, I can get non-ethanol premium in town, because this is a bite. :evil:

I did retrieve a lost screw out of the tank and a small shard of metal that I have no idea what it was from.

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Tomorrow I guess I will get the tank good and clean and seal it up, so I can get this thing reassembled I need to mow and scrape the driveway.

See Ya,
Mike
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Re: Tore Down One of My Ford Tractors Today

Post by Jims65cyclone »

Well, Mike, since you're the guy who controls the levers on this forum, and the guy who posted this non-Comet thread, I'll jump in with a tractor question of my own. It's sort of a mystery story that I'm looking for some detective input on.

I have a 1948 Ford 8N tractor. Ford tractors of that vintage are notorious for rear axle seal leaks that allow the brake linings to get saturated in oil, making them VERY hard to stop. Such is the case with mine. I was using a scrape blade near the pond at the bottom of a hill on our property, and started to climb back up the hill to park the tractor. I didn't have enough throttle set, and the tractor began to bog down as I started up the hill. I instinctively pulled in the clutch and stepped on the useless brakes and started rolling backwards down the hill. I let the clutch back out and popped a wheelie :shock: , so pushed it back in and "feathered" it lightly until I could turn the tractor parallel to hill, at which point the engine stalled. After checking my pants and restarting the tractor, I discovered that the clutch would not disengage to put the transmission in gear. I finally cranked it in neutral, idled it fairly low and forced it into 1st gear, then revved it up and climbed the hill back to the house.

I thought I might have broken the clutch fork shaft or sheared the pin on the fork, but the shaft, which passes all the way through the casting, rotated equally on both ends. I didn't have a way to check for a sheared pin, but it acted like the throw-out bearing wasn't pressing far enough in on the clutch to disengage it. I decided to adjust the 3/4" free-play out of the clutch pedal so that all of the TO bearing's travel would go into disengaging the clutch, and see what would happen. If the pin were sheared, I could expect nothing. If it weren't......? To adjust the free-play, I had to disconnect the linkage, which allowed the fork to move away from the clutch more than normal. I reassembled it with no free-play, cranked it up and everything worked just fine! :? I adjusted the linkage again to add the free-play back in, and everything worked just fine. :? :? I turned it off, scratched my head and left it alone for a few weeks. The next time I tried to use it, the clutch wouldn't disengage again and I had the same problem all over again. :evil:

Now, after talking to some people, I've developed a hypothesis, which I offer for your critique and input. Hypothesis: When I popped the clutch on the hill, I tore a section of the clutch disc. The torn piece wedged between the pressure plate and an un-torn section of the disc, effectively making the disc twice as thick at that point and decreasing the pressure plate gap to zero. Assuming the disc is riveted and not bonded, and that one end of the torn piece is still riveted to the disc, the torn piece could then rotate on the rivet. Further, assume that if the engine stopped with the clutch disengaged and the torn piece at the top of the disc, the torn piece could rotate to fall between the plate and disc, locking up the clutch. If the engine stopped with the torn piece on the bottom of the disc, the torn piece would rotate away from the plate, allowing the proper gap between disc and PP. Now, assume all this assuming were fact, and the engine stopped with torn section located at the bottom. When I adjusted all the free-play out of the pedal, it allowed enough additional travel of the PP to release the torn piece and rotate out of the way. I fire it up and everything works fine, centrifugal force keeping the torn piece rotated out of the way. I stop the engine, and the torn piece happens to be on the bottom again, so doesn't rotate into the gap between disc and PP. I add the free-play back in on the clutch pedal, fire it up and all's well. I stop the engine again, and the torn piece happens to be on top and rotates into the gap again. I start it a few weeks later and can't disengage the clutch. Plausible hypothesis, or am I nuts?

I suppose the only way to get to the bottom of the mystery is to do the autopsy and see what I find. I've been putting it off since you literally have to split the tractor in two, separating the front half from the back half, to get to the clutch. I would be interested in any theories or suggestions you may have.
Jim
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Re: Tore Down One of My Ford Tractors Today

Post by lavron »

Well not sure, have not had to deal with a clutch yet, maybe somebody like Pops will have more experience in that area, I do know, that if you leave them sitting for a while the clutch will basically rust to the flywheel, I have one tractor that does that and I have to start it in neutral and then do like you did and jam it in first, I drive with the clutch petal pressed down and I then find a big tree and push against it to free the clutch. The 8N my dad made a wedge and used it too keep the clutch disengaged when he wasn't using it for a while (as I have kept it)

I would say you have done something to the clutch however, because you had no problems before, time to find out what it is like to split the tractor in two, look at it this way you can repair those seals at the same time and have brakes again.
Jims65cyclone wrote:Well, Mike, since you're the guy who controls the levers on this forum, and the guy who posted this non-Comet thread
Just a note on that for anyone that might not understand, the description on the Comet Lounge "Off Topic Posts Welcome. Personal Attacks, Profanity or Obcenity will not be Tolerated." so this is the one place that off topic stuff is ok, I will ask that when you are going off subject (like I do) make your header fairly descriptive that way if people don't want to read an off subject post they can ignore it or avoid it. If people don't agree let me know, I may pull the levers but this is you alls forum.

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Mike
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Re: Tore Down One of My Ford Tractors Today

Post by Tims1965MercuryComet »

Just a note on that for anyone that might not understand, the description on the Comet Lounge "Off Topic Posts Welcome. Personal Attacks, Profanity or Obcenity will not be Tolerated." so this is the one place that off topic stuff is ok, I will ask that when you are going off subject (like I do) make your header fairly descriptive that way if people don't want to read an off subject post they can ignore it or avoid it. If people don't agree let me know, I may pull the levers but this is you alls forum.

See Ya,
Mike[/quote]


I like the "Off Topic Posts".
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Re: Tore Down One of My Ford Tractors Today

Post by popscomet »

I read this last night and what 1st came to mind,,was the PP....altho your theory on the cluch disc could hold water...but I'll still lean towaed the PP......JMO....when the clutch sticks on my 9n,I crank it in gear and drive it around in the pasture and pump the clutch pedal and it always breaks loose,,,so far !! and I've had it since 1984,so it has stuck a few times..........pop
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Re: Tore Down One of My Ford Tractors Today

Post by Jims65cyclone »

I've had stuck clutch discs before in both cars and tractors, but it was always after they had sat for long time. This happened suddenly, after using the tractor for half an hour with no problem, but after popping the clutch on a hill. It just doesn't fit the normal "stuck clutch" profile to me. :?
Jim
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Re: Tore Down One of My Ford Tractors Today

Post by lavron »

So I cleaned and sealed the tank today, discovered that it had been repaired sometime in the past with what appears to be JB Weld, I guess it worked ok has been on there from before I bought it and I have had it at least 15 years. I feel better about sealing the tank now, I had considered just cleaning it good.

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It was a bite to clean the tank, twice and etch it and the worst was getting it completely dry before sealing it, sealing it was pretty easy all things considered, now to wait 3 days to see how it worked. Well after I get everything reassembled.

While it was apart and I had a bucket of cleaner/degreaser that I dumped out of the tank into a bucket, I scrubbed some of the grease off the tractor engine, it will probably never run again now :roll: or it will be leaking like sieve.

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Mike
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Re: Tore Down One of My Ford Tractors Today

Post by popscomet »

JIM,the stuck cluch comment from me wasn't concerning your problem,,it was just a reply to MIKE on his way of unsticking his clutch..but in your case ,it all is pointing to having to split the tractor,for the fix.....pop
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Re: Tore Down One of My Ford Tractors Today

Post by lavron »

popscomet wrote:but in your case ,it all is pointing to having to split the tractor,for the fix
I agree with Pops on this, I know it is a bummer but you will probably never have to do it again, well that is if you don't keep popping wheelies. :roll:

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Re: Tore Down One of My Ford Tractors Today

Post by poboyjo65 »

Jim before I broke the tractor down I think I would keep running it for a little longer & look really close at the linkage ,fork & adjustment,maybe even put a mark on the fork & adjusment just to make sure it isn't something moving/changing external.
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Re: Tore Down One of My Ford Tractors Today

Post by Comechero65 »

When did they start painting ford tractors orange? I remember them being either grey or blue. Of coarse that was 50 years ago. Only ones I remember being orange were case and allis chalmers.
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Re: Tore Down One of My Ford Tractors Today

Post by lavron »

Comechero65 wrote:When did they start painting ford tractors orange?
They were red and grey I believe they started with the 8N in 1948 up through maybe '62 (someone can correct me on that I just don't want to look it up right now) this is my '57 600 series (I have a '57 800 series as well) the hood is grey as are the rear fenders, I think they went to all red and then to the familiar blue you speak of, I am pretty sure by '64 or so they were blue maybe earlier, my 800 series tractor has some blue parts on it someone replaced through the years.

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Re: Tore Down One of My Ford Tractors Today

Post by Jims65cyclone »

poboyjo65 wrote:maybe even put a mark on the fork & adjusment just to make sure it isn't something moving/changing external.
I marked the clutch fork shaft on either side of the case right after it happened so I could check for equal rotation on both sides, and that checked out. None of the adjustment linkage shows excessive wear, and is splined to the shaft with no sign of slippage.
Comechero65 wrote:When did they start painting ford tractors orange?
Ron

I think Mike's orange is actually faded red. Mine looks almost just like his, except it has a flat-head four instead of OHV. The 2N, 9N and 8N all had a red chassis, grey fenders and hood, and black seat and grill. That apparently continued at least up through Mike's 57 model.
I'm resolved to there being no hope but to split the tractor to get to the bottom of the problem. There's no telling if/when the clutch has been replaced in the past, so I'm sure it's in need, anyway. I was just wondering if anyone thought my wild theory could explain the problem. Don't know when I'll get around to doing it, but when I do, I'll dig up this thread and post the good, bad and ugly, as Pop says.
Jim
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Re: Tore Down One of My Ford Tractors Today

Post by popscomet »

I watch a tractor show sometimes on TV,,and just the other night they showed a restored 2n that was a 1family tractor and it was solid gray and it seems to me I've seen A 8n the same......my late father in law had a ford ferguson that was solid gray...in fact I pass the shed it is stored in every day,,it's a early 50's ,it has a OHV engine...........pop
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Re: Tore Down One of My Ford Tractors Today

Post by lavron »

popscomet wrote:just the other night they showed a restored 2n that was a 1family tractor and it was solid gray and it seems to me I've seen A 8n the same
They were all grey during the war, I think that would be the 2N, I have seen 9N (that would be the 1939 model) both ways, My uncle has a 9N that is red and grey, of course there is no knowing how many people painted them to "update" them, Henry Ford got them to let FMC keep building tractors during WW2 and that is when the 2N (1942) model came out with steel wheels and magnetos, not sure they even had a starter, I think they had a pretty basic electrical system because everything was going into the war effort, that is why they are all grey as well.

For anyone curious I believe they went 9N, 2N, 8N, NAA (Jubilee 55, 56 I think, also first OHV engine, again, I think) and then 100 series (57-?). I think the 1000 series followed but I really quit caring after '57. :roll:

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