T-5 Questions & Info

All the stuff under the car, Transmission, Brakes, Suspension & Steering
lavron
Site Admin
Posts: 4710
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2003 9:17 am
Location: Missouri, Ozarks
Contact:

Re: T-5 Questions & Info

Post by lavron »

redhotcomet wrote:No reason you couldn't go with different bores, but the math gets confusing and I like keeping things simple.
This whole process is too close to math for me :roll: Good info, thanks, later on I might be asking how you hook it all up.

See Ya,
Mike
Mike's build thread
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=13058
Image

lavron
Site Admin
Posts: 4710
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2003 9:17 am
Location: Missouri, Ozarks
Contact:

Re: T-5 Questions & Info

Post by lavron »

Looked some of this up on RockAuto.com they have both the master and slave you mentioned
redhotcomet wrote:I used a mazda miata slave cylinder - Under $25 new. Might be the same part for the whole model history, not sure, but I think I specified about a 2002 model year. 3/4" bore
...I was after a 1986 Toyota Land cruiser master, but I couldn't get one for some reason.
Miata slave $11-$25

Land Cruiser master $18-$35

Prices that low don't really need to find used.

I am making an assumption that the brake booster (manual dual) and the clutch master have room to sit side by side.

See Ya,
Mike
Mike's build thread
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=13058
Image

redhotcomet
Posts: 349
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:22 pm
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada

Re: T-5 Questions & Info

Post by redhotcomet »

Its a bit tricky. There is room for them to go side by side, but the firewall has a bend right where the clutch master wants to go. Here is what I did. Cut and drilled a piece of 3/8" plate to bolt between the brake master and the firewall, which in turn supports the clutch master. I should lengthen my brake pushrod by 3/8", but I haven't got to it yet. Been driving it too much! I'll try and get a pic if I remember that might explain things better.
1964 Caliente hardtop, 302/T5/8.8"

Image

lavron
Site Admin
Posts: 4710
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2003 9:17 am
Location: Missouri, Ozarks
Contact:

Re: T-5 Questions & Info

Post by lavron »

Thought I would post this here so Jim won't get on to me, I have been talking about finding a bell housing for the T-5 conversion, this will work for both the 250 six I am using and a SBF, I have found two part numbers, I posted one earlier E6ZR-6394-AA, which would come in a '86 (E6) and later Mustang (maybe '93) there is also E3ZR-6394-AA which I assume is from an '83-'85 Mustang V8, it appears that there maybe fitment issues with the '83 bell and a 10.5" clutch and needs a 10" clutch but I think both use the same 157 tooth flywheel.

Someone may know better than me (probably) and can post the correct info here.

If anyone has a line on a cheap bell housing let me know (free - >$100) if you know me, it doesn't have to be clean like new, just not broken, road grime is a protective coating :roll: I will need a clutch fork as well.

See Ya,
Mike
Mike's build thread
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=13058
Image

redhotcomet
Posts: 349
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:22 pm
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada

Re: T-5 Questions & Info

Post by redhotcomet »

Something I just remembered that bit me in the butt. Make sure your flywheel has the locating dowel pins in it. Mine were sheared off and I didn't realize until I went to install the clutch. They are a little tough to find too. I had to go to the dealer to get them. If memory serves, there should be 3 of them.
1964 Caliente hardtop, 302/T5/8.8"

Image

lavron
Site Admin
Posts: 4710
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2003 9:17 am
Location: Missouri, Ozarks
Contact:

Re: T-5 Questions & Info

Post by lavron »

Ok been studying again, maybe someone said this and I ignored it, but it appears the 3.8 V-6 Mustang bell housing is the same bolt pattern as the SBF but the V-6 uses a 164 tooth flywheel... anyone see where I am going here?

If this is true #1 the V-6 Bells are cheaper than the V-8 Bells #2 the 164 tooth 300-6 flywheel would fit inside which I can get cheaper, #3 I can use the smaller V-6 starter, and finally #4 I would have to swap my long input shaft back onto my T-5 (no biggie I still have it) I might want to get a steel bearing retainer however.

Anyone know for sure if the V-6 bell shares a SBF bolt pattern?

I will do a little more research. :roll:

See Ya,
Mike
Mike's build thread
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=13058
Image

redhotcomet
Posts: 349
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:22 pm
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada

Re: T-5 Questions & Info

Post by redhotcomet »

Yep I posted the 3.8 V6 bell option on your messing with sixes can be frustrating sometimes. I'm pretty sure the v6 bell is the same. The 3.8 is basically a 5.0 with 2 missing cylinders if I recall correctly. Sounds like you got a plan!
1964 Caliente hardtop, 302/T5/8.8"

Image

lavron
Site Admin
Posts: 4710
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2003 9:17 am
Location: Missouri, Ozarks
Contact:

Re: T-5 Questions & Info

Post by lavron »

redhotcomet wrote:Sounds like you got a plan!
Maybe so, finally :roll: The only thing I have not found is if the V-6 flywheel and the 300 L-6 are the same thickness and offset, I am assuming they are the same or the starter would not be the same (all them the starters interchange V6, V8, L6, 164 and 157 tooth makes no difference)

The block plates seem a bit hard to find or I am using poor search terms, I would guess the 3.8L, the 300-6, or the 351W block/separation plates would work and interchange.

Funny thing is I bid on a SBF T-5 bell housing on eBay and lost the bid by a $1 (of course) then while looking for another cheapie I stumbled across the V6 fitting and it had 164 tooth flywheel.

Then only thing is it will scoot my shifter back even further but I think I can deal with that as long as it does not interfere with the tunnel at the firewall.

See Ya,
Mike
Mike's build thread
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=13058
Image

Comechero65
Posts: 1870
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:37 pm
Location: Santa Clara, Ca

Re: T-5 Questions & Info

Post by Comechero65 »

lavron wrote: I am making an assumption that the brake booster (manual dual) and the clutch master have room to sit side by side.

See Ya,
Mike
I have seen some who have put the mc for the clutch right side by side with the brake mc.
Ron
Image

lavron
Site Admin
Posts: 4710
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2003 9:17 am
Location: Missouri, Ozarks
Contact:

Re: T-5 Questions & Info

Post by lavron »

Comechero65 wrote:I have seen some who have put the mc for the clutch right side by side with the brake mc.
Ron
Yeah I think it will fit, just have to worry if I decide to add power brakes later.

I saw one where they put the master reversed under the dash, but the bracketry was kinda pricey and I am trying to go cheap so I like using stuff I can mod to fit.

See Ya,
Mike
Mike's build thread
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=13058
Image

lavron
Site Admin
Posts: 4710
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2003 9:17 am
Location: Missouri, Ozarks
Contact:

Re: T-5 Questions & Info

Post by lavron »

This is the specs on the two different flywheels, they use the same replacement ring gear as well so I am thinking interchangeable except the 300 would be zero imbalance and not sure about the V6, later ones were zero imbalance, they use the same clutch as well (11")

Image

See Ya,
Mike
Mike's build thread
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=13058
Image

lavron
Site Admin
Posts: 4710
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2003 9:17 am
Location: Missouri, Ozarks
Contact:

Re: T-5 Questions & Info

Post by lavron »

As I forge blindly ahead 8) I ordered a 3.8L T5 Bell and block plate today, still scrounging for a flywheel but I suspect one from RockAuto for around $50 if about the best deal I will find. I will need to find a clutch arm because it did not come in the deal, so far I spent about $75 (shipping included) so I am dollars a head I think, the 157 tooth flywheel I found was $122 alone and the bells I was finding on eBay, with shipping, would run generally upwards towards $200.

See Ya,
Mike
Mike's build thread
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=13058
Image

lavron
Site Admin
Posts: 4710
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2003 9:17 am
Location: Missouri, Ozarks
Contact:

Re: T-5 Questions & Info

Post by lavron »

I may be the one to tell the internet if a 3.8L T5, bell & Flywheel will bolt on to a 250 I6 or not :roll: Hopefully I will get the bell this week and so far it appears the flywheel from the 3.8L should work but I might have to drill the crank bolt holes just a bit larger because they are metric sized, however, it appears the flywheel is hub centric so it shouldn't have to be a precision drill (and they are really close to the same size)

The only issue besides if it will work at all is the shifter will move even further back (an inch or less), but if it is too far back I can scrounge an S-10 tail shaft housing.

See Ya,
Mike
Mike's build thread
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=13058
Image

lavron
Site Admin
Posts: 4710
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2003 9:17 am
Location: Missouri, Ozarks
Contact:

Re: T-5 Questions & Info

Post by lavron »

redhotcomet wrote:I used a mazda miata slave cylinder - Under $25 new. Might be the same part for the whole model history, not sure, but I think I specified about a 2002 model year. 3/4" bore

I used a Wilwood 3/4 master cylinder - I think I paid about $75 CDN for it. Might be able to find something cheaper. I was after a 1986 Toyota Land cruiser master, but I couldn't get one for some reason. They were priced around $25 I think. I believe they have a 3/4" bore as well. I wanted the bores to match between the master and slave so travel was 1:1. No reason you couldn't go with different bores, but the math gets confusing and I like keeping things simple. Pedal travel and feel is bang on.

For a hose I got creative: grease gun hose with compression fittings onto steel line.
Is there no return spring?

I noticed on a different forum that I believe you posted on, one guy had started to use a Isuzu Rodeo slave cylinder, I kinds like the way it mounted but I haven't seen anyone actually use one, do you know if there was an issue with them? Because they are mighty cheap :P

See Ya,
Mike
Mike's build thread
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=13058
Image

redhotcomet
Posts: 349
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:22 pm
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada

Re: T-5 Questions & Info

Post by redhotcomet »

Return spring is the clutch diaphragm! :lol:

Original z-bar had a return spring I believe. I eliminated it. Not necessary. Pedal feel is very good as it is, adding a spring would just increase the effort required.

I don't reallyrecall anything about the rodeo slave cylinder. I looked at them on rockauto, looks pretty much the same except for a different style mount and the hose comes into it at a different angle. It could be that the hose would contact the floor/transmission tunnel due to the different angle. And that they're 7/8" bore possibly? I'm sure they could be made to work. If you have a link to the forum I could try and refresh my memory :?
1964 Caliente hardtop, 302/T5/8.8"

Image

Post Reply