Please identify Cleveland or Windsor???

289 - 351 cid Small Block Performance

Please identify Cleveland or Windsor???

Postby The Transplanter » Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:23 am

Hi Guys

Not a Comet, but you guys will know the answer 8)

Im just sealing a deal on a 1969 Mach 1 for my brother. Its described (and has a Marti) as an "M" code which is the 4v Cleveland.

But my contact in California has described it as a "Windsor"! But I think he is just confused ?!?!

Can anyone who knows please confirm this is a Cleveland motor

Cheers Al

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Re: Please identify Cleveland or Windsor???

Postby The Transplanter » Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:34 am

I think its me getting confused :oops:

Did some more searching online and it looks like the M code was a Windsor in 69 and a Cleveland in 1970!
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Re: Please identify Cleveland or Windsor???

Postby Groover » Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:43 am

Believe that is a Windsor.

Cleveland coolant does not go into the manifold, it goes into the block... but I have never owned a Cleveland, so don't bet the farm on me.
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Re: Please identify Cleveland or Windsor???

Postby poboyjo65 » Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:22 am

you can bet the farm! :lol: it's a W.
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Re: Please identify Cleveland or Windsor???

Postby The Transplanter » Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:36 am

Cheers guys, yeah just got the Marti.

It was my lack of knowledge lol :lol:
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Re: Please identify Cleveland or Windsor???

Postby A/FX » Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:29 pm

Early ‘70’s Mustangs had the Windsor, later in the production run they changed to the Cleveland. Two completely different engines that share nothing but the displacement size. The picture you posted is a Windsor but it is difficult to determine if it is a 351 or a 302. (Or a 221,260, 289!)
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Re: Please identify Cleveland or Windsor???

Postby poboyjo65 » Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:33 pm

A/FX wrote:Early ‘70’s Mustangs had the Windsor, later in the production run they changed to the Cleveland. Two completely different engines that share nothing but the displacement size. The picture you posted is a Windsor but it is difficult to determine if it is a 351 or a 302. (Or a 221,260, 289!)

Looks like a 351w . wider taller intake,kinda wraps around the dist. 351 firing order is another clue. another clue is that long bolt thru the ps pump bracket goes into a small bracket on the head of a 351. on a shorter decked 302 it goes in that top hole of the head, where you see the top bolt of the small bracket .
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Re: Please identify Cleveland or Windsor???

Postby The Transplanter » Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:04 pm

See! I knew ya'll know the answer 8)

It was my fault, my contact told me it was an "M" code. I said is that a Cleveland (as my last Mach was a 351C), he said no its a Windsor. So i presumed he was mistaken, looked online and the M code come back as a Cleveland :? So thats when I put the question to you guys :)

I then since found that the M code was available as a C & a W :oops:

Normal service resumed :mrgreen:

Anyhow I have agreed to buy the car on behalf of my brother, so everyone's happy

Pics for interest

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Re: Please identify Cleveland or Windsor???

Postby Jims65cyclone » Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:12 pm

Sharp lookin' car! 8)
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Re: Please identify Cleveland or Windsor???

Postby popscomet » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:01 pm

WHEN all else fails ,the very best way to tell a C from a W,when you walk up to it is by looking at the fuel pump.....a C has the bolts in the 12 n 6 o'clock pos..where as a W HAS THEM side by side just like a 289,302...there is several other ways but the fuel pump is the best if ever in doubt.....pop
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Re: Please identify Cleveland or Windsor???

Postby caseville cyclone » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:25 pm

It is definately a Windsor,I have a 351 CLEVELAND in my 1965 Comet.Andy
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Re: Please identify Cleveland or Windsor???

Postby lavron » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:17 am

I will ask this here because this got me to thinking about something.

You all know I am not too knowledgeable on the V8 stuff but this comes from what my dad always was looking for in a SBF. My dad grew up in the 50s and by the 60's he was married and had 3 kids to feed (all of around 22yrs old when I came along, the last of 3) so pretty much was past his wild days :roll: and if you were to cut my dad he would bleed Ford Blue. I learned most of my mechanical stuff from him and we swapped a few engines, etc. growing up, he always wanted a Cleveland motor, I don't remember ever asking why, so what was the advantages he saw to that over the Windsor? It seemed to me it had something to do with the oiling system/valve design but again I can't recall, he may of just not liked Canadians :P

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Re: Please identify Cleveland or Windsor???

Postby barrys65cyclone » Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:13 pm

The Transplanter wrote:Hi Guys

Not a Comet, but you guys will know the answer 8)

Im just sealing a deal on a 1969 Mach 1 for my brother. Its described (and has a Marti) as an "M" code which is the 4v Cleveland.

But my contact in California has described it as a "Windsor"! But I think he is just confused ?!?!

Can anyone who knows please confirm this is a Cleveland motor

Cheers Al

cleveland.jpg

"M" code in 1969 would be 351 Windsor for 4V carb. engine appears to be windsor.
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Re: Please identify Cleveland or Windsor???

Postby Rocket989 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:59 pm

barrys65cyclone wrote:
The Transplanter wrote:Hi Guys

Not a Comet, but you guys will know the answer 8)

Im just sealing a deal on a 1969 Mach 1 for my brother. Its described (and has a Marti) as an "M" code which is the 4v Cleveland.

But my contact in California has described it as a "Windsor"! But I think he is just confused ?!?!

Can anyone who knows please confirm this is a Cleveland motor

Cheers Al

cleveland.jpg

"M" code in 1969 would be 351 Windsor for 4V carb. engine appears to be windsor.


Yep & if nothing else the intake manifold bolts are a dead giveaway. That & no Cleveland’s ‘til ‘70!!! :lol: :lol:
'cause Johno says you gotta have a sig pic!! :)
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