351W heads on a 260

289 - 351 cid Small Block Performance

Re: 351W heads on a 260

Postby Rocket989 » Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:53 pm

I did some research back when and echo Roy's earlier comments...that and from the measuring I did, anything over a 1.80 intake valve will be REALLY shrouded in the 260's small bore (as in might not fit w/o notching the block). Early Windsors used a 1.84 so a crap-shoot! Looks like the stroker is gonna work out for you though. Cut the tranny x-member reinforcement (upper rib) out and don't worry about it. I'll be slapping in a T5 and can already see leaving it means the a**-end of the trans is too far down...that and a LOT of Comet/ Falcon guys with fast cars have chopped it out with ZERO issues.

As far as an electric fuel pump...only if EFI and using a pressure switch to shut it off if needed. My Comet has one because I think the PO or engine builder forgot the eccentric when putting the engine together. NO reason I can think of to use one with a carb!

I didn't see it, but sub-frame connectors that tie in the rockers & seats is a good idea. I ordered the Crites stuff since it was cheap enough...I guess they use to come with gussets for the front seats/ rockers? Mine did not so I'll be adding 'em. Also, the instructions are lousy compared to an earlier set I found online. Nice enough parts though.

Good luck with it and post any issues!!
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Re: 351W heads on a 260

Postby 351 Pinto » Tue Oct 18, 2016 1:30 pm

I did get the 331. It has Edelbrock Performer heads, presumably with 1.90/1.60 valves as that is most common. It has an E303 cam. That head and cam combo is probably done by 5500, so I think the Performer 289 4 bbl intake from my 260 will be sufficient. Thoughts?

Whoever built it either used what he had, or intended to add nitrous or boost later. Scat 3.25 crank, h-beam rods, SRP pistons, stud girdle.... seems like a lot of bottom end for an engine with such mild heads and cam.
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Re: 351W heads on a 260

Postby Rocket989 » Tue Oct 18, 2016 6:50 pm

Sell ths Performer and grab a used Vic Jr...give you WAY more room later (porting it) and work better with N20! You won't want for low-end and I wouldn't slap an intake on that flows 50cfm LESS than the heads at all RPM's! :D :mrgreen: :lol: :lol:
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Re: 351W heads on a 260

Postby 351 Pinto » Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:44 am

Oh, I didn't realize my intake was that bad. I just looked at the rpm range. :oops:

I have the Ford Motosport branded Victor Jr. on my Pinto. I will look for one for a 302.
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Re: 351W heads on a 260

Postby bmmaurer » Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:37 pm

Don't mess with the heads...

Here's my recommendation,

Hi, Here's the set-up that will make you smile... Guaranteed!

I visited my Father-in-law over Christmas and he showed me his new "toy". He had purchased a '65 Sunbeam Tiger. FYI a Sunbeam Tiger is a British sports car with a FORD 260 and then a 289 V-8 stuffed in it. The engine package was designed with help from Shelby. The car ran so much better than my Edelbrock 500 cfm Performer on top of a Performer 289 intake with a Performer cam.

What I'm saying is forget the Edelbrock carb idea, Go with a Holley 0-1848-1 vaccum secondary 465cfm 4bbl carb with the Edelbrock Performer 289 intake and a Edelbrock Performer cam set-up.

Why do I say this? Shelby got together in the mid '60s to design an "super induction" system for the Sunbeam Tiger call the LAT 1 package. It consisted of a Holley 0-1848-1 465 cfm 4bbl carb, the Edelbrock 4FB intake manifold and a mild cam. Here is the info on the induction package...

http://www.team.net/html/tigers/1998-01/msg00084.html

Why this set-up? I just finished putting this carb on my 260 with a Performer Intake and a Performer cam and the car runs $^*(%^^%(%$ Perfect. SO much better thatn the 500 cfm Edelbrock Performer carb with all their screwed up tune up spring and jet set. Out of the box this thing is perfect. Here's the carb info from Holley. I got one open box for $320.00 from Summit (sharksmotorsports) on ebay.

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_sy ... s/0-1848-1

Since Carrol Shelby designed this induction system for the 260/289 V-8's, I would trust his expertise over all our buds here. (and they're good)

If you still want to go with a Edelbrock, I'll sell you the one I just took off with the tune up kit. I would stay away from the finicky, rich running Edelbrock.

Here's Some pics...

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LESS is More. These 260 can only handle so much fuel.

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Re: 351W heads on a 260

Postby Groover » Thu Oct 20, 2016 4:12 pm

bmmaurer wrote:Why this set-up? I just finished putting this carb on my 260 with a Performer Intake and a Performer cam and the car runs $^*(%^^%(%$ Perfect. SO much better thatn the 500 cfm Edelbrock Performer carb with all their screwed up tune up spring and jet set. Out of the box this thing is perfect. Here's the carb info from Holley. I got one open box for $320.00 from Summit (sharksmotorsports) on ebay.


Bruce,

Can you elaborate a little on "$^*(%^^%(%$ Perfect."

Seriously.

What sort of performance are you now getting out of your little 260... asks another guy with another little 260.
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Re: 351W heads on a 260

Postby bmmaurer » Thu Oct 20, 2016 5:45 pm

Designed by Shelby Himself, this set-up runs F******G Great. Just the right proportions of CFM's to engine displacement.

With a 4 speed set-up, I would imagine the power from the lil 260 would be great. I have an automatic. When I get on it and it downshift below 50MPH it really screams.

Engine is .040 over, flat top pistons, performer 4bbl intake, 465 CFM Holley, Performer CAM.

Probably about 20-25 more HP than stock.

Anyway... You can only get so much out of a 260 and I think this is the way to go.

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_sy ... s/0-1848-1



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Re: 351W heads on a 260

Postby Rocket989 » Thu Oct 20, 2016 7:49 pm

Groover - FWIW, the 260 in mine is similar: Comp 268h cam, Eddy StreetMaster single-plane intake (a goofy '70's econo deal that'd be small on a 302, but works great on ~40 less cubes!), and a Holley 570 Street Avenger (the zinc version I've got is actually a 465cfm carb), and an Accel elec. dist. Runs surprisingly good for a wee motor. I will say the BIGGEST diff was the 3.89 gears - 260's like to buzz too!! :mrgreen:

Instead of swapping in the planned 302, I almost wish I could do a few upgrades to the 260, just to see how it'd run!! Stinks that the CC's on the heads I've got are too big, and the headers won't work with the z-bar...ah well!! :mrgreen: :D :lol:

One of the cool things about the 1848 Brian mentioned is you can get 'em with a hot air choke. Original riser will bolt up! :wink:
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Re: 351W heads on a 260

Postby ants875 » Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:33 pm

Not sure if I missed something here but he's got a 331 to put in his car so 465cfm ain't gonna cut the mustard here. I have a quick fuel qseries 750cfm on my 347 with a vic jr and it runs great. I do have what I have heard are better heads, Afr 185 and maybe more compression I think I'm 10.8-10.9 so you might need a little less but the vic jr is a great intake.

You might consider the new holley fuel injection, like $1300 complete system

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Re: 351W heads on a 260

Postby Rocket989 » Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:53 pm

Nah Ant, I caught that but couldn't help going down the route of wee-Windsor reminiscing!! :mrgreen: :D :twisted:
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Re: 351W heads on a 260

Postby 351 Pinto » Fri Oct 21, 2016 8:25 am

I really like what you did with the 260! That is what I originally wanted to do. The car doesn't run that badly now. 3.73 gears really help the little motor. The problem is that the parts I have won't work. So if I have to open the wallet in a big way, I might as well get the cubic inches too. Also, my T10 has seen better days. The 331 came with a T5 attached.

Quick update:

I decided to go with FiTech EFI. It has a ton of great reviews everywhere I looked, including 1 on this Forum. They have a $100 rebate program now until Christmas, bringing the price to $895.

While searching for a Victor Jr. intake I stumbled across a Performer RPM Air Gap. It seems to occupy the middle ground between what I had and the Vic Jr. I figure for $150, I might as well try it out. I think it will flow well enough considering the limits of the Eddy heads and E303 cam.

The heads are gasket matched to a Fel-pro 1250, but are not ported. The intake is box stock. I will smooth the edges a bit, but I don't think it needs to be gasket matched.
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Re: 351W heads on a 260

Postby bmmaurer » Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:17 am

"Not sure if I missed something here but he's got a 331 to put in his car so 465cfm ain't gonna cut the mustard here..."

Original post is about 351 heads on a 260... Not a 331, so mustard is still being cut.

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Re: 351W heads on a 260

Postby 351 Pinto » Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:18 am

I am back to beg for more info and advice. Can someone elaborate on the front cover and the Z-bar clutch, please?

Front cover: I have the original 260 front cover with the filler tube and dipstick. I like this one because it looks correct for the car and I prefer for the dipstick to be in the front. I don't care if the filler tube is operational or not. I can pour oil in the valve cover. I also have a "newer" cover I can use if I must. My question is about the water pump. Are there different water pumps for different front covers? Also, is there a "short" and "long" water pump? I know about reverse rotation pumps and will avoid that. I plan on using a single V-belt.

Z-bar clutch: Obviously it moves the clutch arm the "wrong" way in comparison to the Fox Mustang setup. I assume I will have to use the old clutch arm. Can I use the new bell-housing with this arm? Or do I need to find a 6-bolt BH that was built for use with a Z-bar? Am I making trouble for myself trying to use the Z-bar instead of converting to a cable?

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help. I have no experience with a project like this.
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Re: 351W heads on a 260

Postby Rocket989 » Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:30 pm

If you use a 260 (early or late) timing cover, they use a backless aluminum water pump. About $50 new at most parts stores...they are specific.

You can mod a T5 bell to use the z-bar:
http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2000 ... index2.php

A cable will work and is relatively easy to install...the problem is space!! I haven't seen too many truly successful installs in Comets and Falcons running headers and a cable setup. The headers that do stand a chance are pricey. IMO, stick with the z-bar or go hydraulic.
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Re: 351W heads on a 260

Postby 351 Pinto » Tue Oct 25, 2016 1:10 pm

Excellent information! Thank you Rocket!
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