Power Steering

[cparker136]

Hello Comet fans. New guy here. I have a 1963 Comet that I have done nothing to but have moved it from home to home for years while it awaits me giving it some attention. While I am still not quite there, I am ready to start acquiring some parts. I have toyed around with doing the mustang II front suspension but I am actually leaning towards doing the 1965 steering upgrade on the post above. This would be done in combination of either Granada spindles or the CSRP spindles. My car is a straight 6 car so it has all the smaller steering components etc. So in my search for a cost effective approach to obtain disc brakes, 5 lugs, and power steering, I come to you with a question...

Is there a donor car power steering gear box that I can look for that will work with the 1965 steering upgrade in my 1963? Is there anything else I would need besides a pump and some lines? I would prefer a drop in or at least the easiest swap as possible. I already plan to put in either an aftermarket tilt wheel steering column or swap one out from a donor since I am a little scared of the 'spear of death'.

Anyways, I hope some of you smart Comet guys can help a guy out. I'm still trying to compare costs on whether this is the best route or if I should bite the $2000 bullet and buy a mustang ii instead. Thanks for your help.

[lavron]

I will make a couple of guesses because I really don't know for sure but I would suspect that Maverick or Granda steering boxes might fit but they do have a different sort of column.

I went MII haven't driven the car yet, still working on it, but I like the more simple design and I am doing the air bags, I also didn't spend anywhere near that much but the trade off is doing a lot yourself and a little headache over the prepackaged kits. With that said I always recommend the bolt on solution for most folks and I am not familiar with doing the '65 conversion on anything older than a '64 and there may be an issue with getting a drag link ('64 & '65 cars share chassis, '63 back is narrower between the frame rails I believe) I may be all wrong on this and someone will come along and correct me soon enough

Good luck on your project from one who waited a really long time to get stated on his Comet project.

See Ya,
Mike

[A/FX]

First off I can tell you I am not that familiar with pre ‘64 Comets.
Being your car is a 6cly. Model it should steer fairly easy if all the components are in good condition. Why do you think you need power steering? If you decide you must have it do not even consider the factory unit used in any 60’s or 70’s Comet, Falcon, etc. the slave cylinder type steering was les than desirable when the cars were new and only got worse with age.
I have owned my share of these systems and have converted some to manual steering because the hydraulic slave system was so bad.
If I was you I would look for a V8 steering set up from a donor car and swap everything including spindles and brakes into you car. If you really think you want a new steering column you will need to swap the steering box, I know later model Mustang and Cougar boxes will bolt into ‘64 Comets but you might have to get creative with the pitman arm. Also being you no doubt have a column shift you may have a issue with that.

[cparker136]

Thanks for the comments. I'm still trying to formulate my plan so if I sound a little wishy washy on everything, well it's because I am. I like the MII idea but I'm a little afraid that I might get in over my head. While I can weld ok, I get a little nervous about chopping my car up.

I also heard that the 1963 is narrower which makes me a little nervous about the '65 conversion. The article says it works so I hope it does, haha. I'm guessing maybe the outer tie rod ends are longer? I actually grew up as a Chevy guy so I'm learning as I go along. It sounds like the maverick or mustang steering boxes looks like maybe good alternatives to look into.

Thanks for the heads up on the cylinder style power steering. I'll stay clear of it. I just figure that I'd want the power steering since I want a fun little car to take to car shows and run around town in. I'm not really interested in long hauls or too many trips to the strip. That means I'll be doing a lot of parking lot time. I'm also not a fan of the large diameter steering wheel and mines already cracked. I do plan to drop a 302 in it but I haven't fully decided whether I'll go with a T5, top loader, or a C4. That should remove my need for the column shifter (3 on the tree now). There are so many internet discussions about where the T5 shifter location comes out and the speedometer cable not working that it kind of has me scared. The C4 sounds the easiest with using a star shifter or similar but I think the manual would be more fun. The top loader 4 speed sounds easier than the T5 but when I was at the swap meet over the weekend, they are all about $800-$1000 and they don't come with shifters or bell housings. I can get a T5 for about $350.

I have about 6 months left on getting my shop in order and then I should be able to get started on the car. I'm just now starting to acquire pieces that I know I will need along the way. Thanks for your help.

Hey Mike, I'm also in the Missouri Ozarks. I live just outside of Springfield. Let me know when you have extra parts I might need haha.

[poboyjo65]

No worries ,frames are same widths. I think you are talking about this article by Dick Harrington;
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=15083
it's at the top of our drivetrain section. you can buy all mustang parts except the center link ,which must be for a comet or falcon. as for PS you could go with a borgeson box like some of us have done .they have a new 14:1 ratio. when I got mine they only had 16:1 but I added the shelby quick steer which made it about 3 full turns lock to lock ,vs the 5.5 turns that I had before. the new 14;1 box should be close to 3 turns total,maybe a little more. an aftermarket column makes it easier but it can be done with the stock column. also floor shift is almost mandatory. I also went with a smaller steering wheel. the car drives great, & more like a modern car . the borgeson box does have one drawback ,if you use a rag joint you'll need to make a cover for it,because it lands half in half out of the floor, but it isnt that big of a deal. or some guys use a solid coupler,which would fit inside the column ,,,but that kinda makes make into a spear of death, & you get more vibration to the s wheel. the borgesen is pricey, but still easier that a MII frontend . you can also get spindles in a ''complete'' brake kit from csrp if you dont want to go the granada route.

but the problem you will run into by using a hydro box from a donor is room. not much room between shocktower & firewall. I haven't heard of anyone using one without major work.

[lavron]

Hey Mike, I'm also in the Missouri Ozarks. I live just outside of Springfield.

We are close then I live just north of Springfield (75 miles) not sure on spare parts most of my stuff is plumb used up by the time I am done with it I do have a '64 6 cyl. parts car but don't think that will help much.

There is always EPS steering, so you could get your front rebuilt stock and see how it drives and if you need assist then you could add EPS. (EPS is electric assist BTW if you didn't know)

See Ya,
Mike

[Jims65cyclone]

I plan to go the EPS route with my 65. Sassy (Fred) might chime in here soon. He's converted his 64 to EPS. By the way, welcome aboard, cparker136!

Jim

[cparker136]

Thanks guys for all the information and the welcome. This is great stuff. So it looks like it is confirmed that the 1965 conversion will work on the 1963. I'm definitely leaning in this direction. I'm a little disappointed that there's not really a steering gear box donor option but at least there is the Borgeson after market box that should fit. It looks pretty expensive but every hobby is. I used to have a BOAT (Break Out Another Thousand), so I guess it goes with the territory.

I had heard of electric power steering but I always thought it was just an electric driven power steering pump. I just googled 'EPS power steering classic ford', and was surprised to find a column mounted, electric torque assist contraption. Crazy. I saw there were complete kits available but some people were using Toyota systems. Which route is everyone using EPS going on these cars? I'm interested in learning more.

Again, thanks for all the replies and info. Hopefully I don't wear out my welcome by asking too many questions!

[lavron]

Hopefully I don't wear out my welcome by asking too many questions!

Don't worry about that, as long as you keep it Comet and Ford related you can't ask too many questions. You can probably search the forum and see what is the preferred donor system, like has been mentioned Fred (Sassy) has installed it and there are a lot of posts on doing it and links to other sites.

See Ya,
Mike

[Jims65cyclone]

Fred used an EPS out of a Saturn Vue. There's another fellow on the forum that has passed away who used a Vue EPS, too. Search for comechero and you'll find his stuff. There's also a guy on the Falcon (TFFN) forum who's done a lot of experimenting with EPS's out of Saturns, Toyotas, Nissans, and seems like something else. The only issue is that the EPSs utilize a speed sensor that's part of the car's computer system to sense the car's speed, and vary the level of assist accordingly. The Vue EPS requires a third party control box that you can get on-line to provide that signal with a dial. Basically, you dial in the level of assist you want. The Toyota, Nissan and ??? units have a fail-safe mode that defaults to about 40% assist if the speed signal is lost. That's a reasonable amount of assist for both slow and high speed driving, so they can be used as-is without a control box. From what I've read, I think they also have a self-centering feature built into the torque sensor in the motor to return the steering to center following a turn. I'm probably going to use a unit out of a Toyota on mine. Fred (Sassy) knows a lot more about it than I do, since he's done it. Maybe he'll chime in here soon.

Jim

[SASSY]

Welcome to the forum.
First off if your considering EPS would this be a project you would undertake?
This isn't a job for a but and bolt person.
From about page 32 in this thread are some pics and links as to what is required.
http://www.cometcentral.com/forum/viewt ... &start=465
If they don't dissuade from an attempt at EPS I will be happy to offer an guidance
I can.

[cparker136]

Thanks. I stayed up way too late last night educating myself on the EPS systems. It seams like a great way to go. I'm still in the planning stage but I will definitely look for help when I need it. I guess I would be able to tie this into an aftermarket column and still use the original gear box? Just cut the column, u-joint it and splice it in? If so, it looks like it would work well with the '65 conversion and either the CSRP or Grenada disc brake swap. I feel a plan coming together

[poboyjo65]

Thanks. I stayed up way too late last night educating myself on the EPS systems. It seams like a great way to go. I'm still in the planning stage but I will definitely look for help when I need it. I guess I would be able to tie this into an aftermarket column and still use the original gear box?

or you could use your old column. & yes you can use your old box. but if it is sloppy it wont help that. & you will still have the same amount of turns lock to lock. that is one advantage of the borgesen, it has a more quick turn,sporty feel,& was the deciding factor for me. but if that isnt important to you the EPS is a lot cheaper if you DIY. here are some vids with a lot more info on EPS from the guy named Waid that Jim mentioned. he found & tested several units that dont need the control box (the fail safe ones).
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXG1ii ... 7ZtEaQZ-vA
& yes it works with 65 steering .

[cparker136]

Wow, I'm sold. This still looks way easier than going the mustang II route. I'm going to fabricating a bunch of other stuff so I don't think this looks too bad.

Thanks for the links and ideas.

[cparker136]

or you could use your old column. & yes you can use your old box. but if it is sloppy it wont help that. & you will still have the same amount of turns lock to lock. that is one advantage of the borgesen, it has a more quick turn,sporty feel,& was the deciding factor for me. but if that isnt important to you the EPS is a lot cheaper if you DIY. here are some vids with a lot more info on EPS from the guy named Waid that Jim mentioned. he found & tested several units that dont need the control box (the fail safe ones).
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXG1ii ... 7ZtEaQZ-vA
& yes it works with 65 steering .

Man. The more I think about this the more I have concerns. I thought I finally knew what I was going to do but you bring up a good point about using a 16 or 14 to 1 ratio steering gear box. Do most people that do the EPS conversion still use the factory gear box? Is it weird to have assisted steering but have to turn the wheel so much? I couldn't find the gear box connection is Sassy's thread but there were great pictures of the EPS under the dash.